after going through the instructions i still cannot set up a dept for refunds (refund key) on this till any help is appreciated i have tried repeatedly but to no avail with most attempts ending in a full reset and the manuel is far from simple to follow

I just use void mode to return any products. Slide the switch to the void position (infinity symbol). enter the product to be refunded, then the payment type to refund in. Then slide back to REg mode. Does that do what you want?

Thanks for the reply I did try that but it only works if i haven't already finalized the transaction i need to apply a - on to dept 2 but have no idea how

To program department 2 to be negative, slide the switch to PGM then type in:

1000007 - X/TM - (Dept2 Key) - #/ST

Miss out the dashes on programming, that's just to separate the steps!

Thank you, that has worked and saved me a head ache